Hang out with us for the news, and then our second section focuses on the progression of computer memory and processors. So much has changed over the decades.

Hosts: William Sikkens, Bill Snodgrass, and Gretchen Winkler

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to

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User Friendly 2.0 with host Bill Sikkens,

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Technology architect.

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And this is User Friendly 2.0.

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Welcome to this week's show. Bill.

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Gretchen, welcome. Hello.

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Oh, we're going to be having

an interesting

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conversation today in the second segment.

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For those

that are interested in retro computing.

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And from the feedback

we've been getting from you,

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and please keep it coming at user

friendly show.

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It seems like there's

been a lot of interest in this,

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so it's going to be a fun topic

to talk about, basically where processor

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started and memory

and that type of a thing.

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And I promise

I will not do it in monotone.

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I think really.

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Buehler.

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Buehler. Yes.

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And if we get a copyright

match on that, well it happens.

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So we have our show on YouTube

now as well.

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We're going to be talking about

that towards the end of the month.

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I want to get a little bit of content

up there first, but I see that

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we have a few of you that have found it,

so let us know what you think.

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But yes, I'm noticing

and starting to understand the whole

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YouTube content creator

complain about copyright matches.

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It is definitely a challenge.

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It's one thing

I understand why they do it,

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because you don't want people to just,

you know, steal intellectual property

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and that kind of thing,

but it is extremely strict.

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Your Buehler Buehler thing, Gretchen,

could possibly trigger a copyright strike.

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And I don't think it will.

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But, you know, that's

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kind of how this comes down to so

but I don't have that actor's voice.

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So I mean, it really shouldn't

it shouldn't.

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But that doesn't mean it doesn't.

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And, you know, boy,

I figured out one other thing, too.

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On a different show I was working

on, I was a guest a while back

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and we were live streaming and not me,

but one of the other guests

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had a football game on in the background,

just running in the ambient thing.

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Oh boy, you would.

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I thought they were going to send

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like, authorities to the guy's house

and arrest him or something.

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I mean, the screen went red,

it stopped the streaming

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and, you know, gave this warning

that you will be bestowed.

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If you're German,

you'll know what that word means.

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You know, it's kind of crazy.

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So anyway, new platform for us.

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You don't have to see our mugs, though.

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It's a visualizer, but from the feedback

we're getting so far, it's been enjoyed

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and it's kind of cool

to be on a new platform.

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So we'll keep you up to date on

that as we get closer to it.

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And we weren't going to talk about it

much, except that I have been seeing

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you are already there,

so welcome to that platform.

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What do we have in the news this week?

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All right.

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Star Wars costumes for Halloween are back.

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You know, when I first saw this in here,

I'm like, well, okay, so what?

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But there is a so what to this?

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And, Gretchen, why don't you tell us

a little bit about why this is special?

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Okay. Well.

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All right.

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Many years ago,

when we were doing cosplay and having fun,

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we would sometimes run into situations

where,

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oh, I don't have a piece for this costume,

especially Star Wars.

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And sometimes you could go

to, like, the Halloween stores.

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Like, in this case,

I think it's Spirit Halloween.

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Yeah.

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Where you could go

and get maybe find some pieces

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that would enhance your costume

so that you could get it completed. So

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this was

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always a normal thing

that we could count on.

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And then bam, disappeared.

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No more Star Wars stuff.

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And then the next year and the next year,

it was like Star Wars had died.

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And it was kind of sad and depressing.

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But this year we have Star Wars again

available.

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I guess it was The Mandalorian and Grogu

and Dave Filoni

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that's made Star Wars come back to life

and changes in leadership at Disney.

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Yeah, well, that might be Dave Filoni.

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Isn't he sort of now in charge

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or is he sharing sharing control?

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I have not seen an announcement

to that effect.

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I hope that's where it goes, though.

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And Dave Filoni

is brilliant in my opinion.

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And you know, you do.

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You are starting to see a difference

with all this.

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I know some of the costume clubs

were also having problems

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with some respect due

to they disappeared too.

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Yeah.

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Like you go to events and I was like,

where's the 501st?

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They're gone.

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Yeah.

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You know,

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it's like what happened to these people,

you know, it was like they were fun.

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Yeah. And and so it feels like.

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And the toys are coming back

and it's like, hey,

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we have something to be excited

about again.

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And I'm like, thinking, oh, cool, maybe,

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maybe I can get my Star Wars

stories published.

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And so it's like, there's a new hope.

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I literally very well,

you know, they're not going.

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Yeah,

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they actually do have quite a selection

of costume spirit Halloween.

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And they're not the only one you can.

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I've seen him on Amazon

and other places like that too,

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so they're definitely around

and some of them look pretty good.

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The adult Grogu is a little weird

and weird.

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Oh sure, some of them are weird,

but you know, it might

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take them a little time to, you know,

get back into things back to normal.

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There are some really good ones, too.

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And I think,

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you know, like you say, it's

nice to see it again.

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I haven't seen a Palpatine,

so I don't know, maybe, maybe.

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Or saving the best for last or something.

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I don't think so.

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So we're one step closer

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to seeing Star Wars

unreleased TV show after ten years.

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Yeah.

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So on this topic and again,

you know, seeing what's going on

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here, it's kind of cool

to see some of this stuff coming back.

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So Star Wars under Disney's

leadership has put out a number of series

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of Mandalorian, of course.

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And, you know, there's

been some other things over the years,

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like the rebels,

bad batch. Rebels bad, bad.

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Yeah.

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So I'm all shot, Lord, you know,

and so on.

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And Andor.

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Andor. Andor.

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Yeah.

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And and even acolyte.

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But, you know, the thing of it is.

What was that?

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Did you cough up a hairball?

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I'm sorry.

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This is a family show.

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I don't dare repeat that, but.

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But anyway, so,

you know, it's interesting.

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One of the last projects that was created

by George Lucas and Lucasfilm Animation

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was this non-canon animated parody

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likened to something

like The Simpsons. And,

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you know, it sounded very interesting.

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Seth Green was involved,

so think about it.

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Jeez. Yeah.

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So and this is one of those things,

like you said, Bill OG.

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So it's either going to be really good

or really bad, right?

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So there's it's that kind of a thing.

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But it never went further.

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And it's looking like

this is being at least talked about again.

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So a Star Wars detours and you know

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Lucas Museum

is the one that's talking about this.

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And this is a whole nother topic

I want to cover one of these weeks

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because it would be something

very interesting to look at,

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and it's something

that is also getting off

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the ground we've talked about in the past.

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But, you know,

we may need to do a pilgrimage to that.

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I think that would be really cool

because I think it's important

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if we're going to cover things,

we need to go see it in person.

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Well,

if and if George Lucas and his family

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are putting together

this museum, then you know what?

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It might be worth going down there

to take a look.

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You know, I think so, I think so

I led to understand this is in LA, right?

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Or that area.

I think it's somewhere in LA.

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Yeah. Okay.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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So anyway, they were actually having

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public screenings of select Star Wars

Detours episodes there.

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So this is a thing and you know,

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and like you say, Keith Green confirmed

that at San Diego Comic-Con this year.

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So yeah, it's something

kind of fun to check out.

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I really I'm glad to see this coming back.

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One of the biggest things about Star

Wars, a lot more than most other

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cultures.

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And, you know, things like that

is the fact that it is very fan oriented.

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At least it always used to be

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you had the costume clubs,

you had all kinds of things.

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You had canon, you had non-canon,

you had, you know, a lot of involvement.

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And it was a thing that really integrated

everybody.

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There wasn't a limitation

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to who could participate in what

and all of that kind of stuff.

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Do you remember the really cool pictures

that they're all right?

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This was about ten years ago

on like Twitter

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and some of the other, I think, Facebook.

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There were these artists

who were making these amazing photographs.

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They would set up the, the,

the six inch figures

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and make these amazing pictures of action

scenes.

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Right?

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And then bam, they just disappeared,

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like, like a lawyer came and crush them.

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I don't know

what happened to these people.

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I'm sure there's a story.

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And if somebody knows about it,

maybe they can share that with us.

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Let us know in the comments on YouTube

or here at User Friendly Show,

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because we'd love

to find out what happened.

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But I would be

I was a betting man, and I am.

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I would be willing to say

that you probably have hit the nail

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right on the head there with lawyers

showing up or something akin to that,

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you know? Yeah,

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that seems to be what stifles creativity

in a lot of these cases.

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Definitely.

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Okay. So often a different direction.

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Tiny and visible drones

have been developed.

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Tell us about this.

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This is one

that had an Instagram video attached.

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And not that there's ever fake information

on the Instagram.

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I did want to check it out

to see what was going on here, but,

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I think we're taking a little bit

of artistic license with that headline.

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There's, you know, giant asterisk

attached.

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We're not dealing with anything

that's using,

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you know, space age cloaking technology

or something like that.

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However, that being said,

it is kind of cool and it is a real thing.

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So what they've done is

they've made a drone and basically done

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the engineering on it

so that it spins in a certain way,

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that it will not allow your eye

to lock on a certain part of it.

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So while you can see something

whirling around.

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So it's not invisible in that respect,

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but it is definitely really kind of unique

in the way that this is done.

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So now, Gretchen, you saw the video.

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What do you think of it?

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I thought it was fascinating.

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And I'm like, okay, is this real

or is this fake?

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And, you know,

I could see how possibly something

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moving in a certain fashion

could possibly make it.

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So it was difficult to see.

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So, you know, I just wanted your opinion

and I thought it was kind of a cool

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get one of these.

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So, Bill, in your opinion,

Full Metal Jacket or even Halo,

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the direction we're going with warfare.

What do you think?

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Do we need invisible drones?

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I think it's just evolution of warfare.

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Yeah,

I would I would have to agree with you.

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And I will say one thing about it,

and this is a little bit of an aside

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on this story, but we do get a lot of

comments in on this is a, you know, people

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being concerned about the direction

that's going with technology.

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But I will tell you one thing, it'd

be better if we didn't have to have war,

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obviously,

but that doesn't seem to be an option.

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So when you look at Modern Warfare,

the groups that are using technology

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for front line with robotics and drones

and unmanned vehicles

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and all the different things like that,

the casualties are so much lower

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than what you would see in normal warfare,

especially with this kind of thing.

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So it does have a positive

in that direction,

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just as long as it's on a side

that, you know, I can support.

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So there you are.

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The TikTok

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of Disney+ and concerns

about the future of animation.

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All right.

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So create a blog reporting on this.

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How do I.

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Where do I start with this?

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They're firing their creators

and their animators

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in favor of having TikTok creators

make shorts that they can put on Disney+.

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That's essentially what's going on here.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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So under the headline

of what could possibly go wrong with that?

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Yeah.

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It just seems like okay,

so we're going to allow

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for intellectual property

rights for TikTok creators.

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Like, I don't think I have a problem

with that, but we're getting rid

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of the animators and writers

and things in the process of doing this.

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So you're getting rid of the professionals

basically.

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Yeah. Yeah, that seems kind of

I don't know, Bill.

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What's your opinion?

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I mean, in all honesty,

this seems I don't know.

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Well it's dumb and if I recall correctly,

it also is that they're using a lot of AI

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tools, tools, you know,

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to allow for this to happen.

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So so

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official statement from Disney

is they're going to bring a thoughtfully

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curated, Disney centric, fan

created content from TikTok to the Disney

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Plus app, specifically to its new verts

verts

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vertical mobile feed.

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Yeah, okay.

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Well,

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you don't see me

getting excited about that.

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No, I don't I don't think goes on to say

fans will enjoy a shared Disney experience

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with TikTok videos that will be refreshed

regularly to engage subscribers

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more deeply and timely fan conversations,

building stronger communities,

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ultimately helping them engage

with more story formats.

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No, that does not sound like corporate

speak at all.

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Yeah, I think Disney has lost the plot.

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This.

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Oh, I think

I think they're kind of unwieldy and huge.

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They need to divide themselves up

a little bit and get people focus,

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you know, that, you know, like a leader

that's in charge of just one thing

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and that they love it

and want to care for it.

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You know, that's just my opinion.

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Okay.

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HBO alters Harry Potter series

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footage following a backlash.

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So the direct reporting on this.

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David Thompson wrote this.

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And what we're looking at here

is something

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that we actually did cover earlier

in the year. Yep.

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And HBO is reworking their upcoming

Harry Potter reboot.

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At least the new streams

and different things that have been

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put out on the trailers for this,

because people reacted in a way

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that's saying it's gotten very dark,

and in my opinion, it did.

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Yeah.

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You know, it was to a point

of almost being, why bother with color?

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What did the film film New York,

I think is how you are more.

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Okay, I knew I was saying the word wrong,

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but it was getting,

you know, to that point.

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And that's not Harry Potter. No.

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So the direct posted some before

and after shots from the original trailer

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and what they're showing now, and

it actually does make a huge difference.

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You can actually see details

in the background.

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You can see,

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you know, the faces of the people,

which is kind of important for television.

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You know, there was

there was a scene where I think

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Harry was in the

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like the chemistry

lab, the potions lab, and

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he's sitting there all alone in the dark.

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And then when they cleaned it up,

oh, there's a kid behind him.

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Yeah, that's about how the different

it was like, wow, you know,

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why did she bother even being there

and being excited about having the job

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if they were going to put her in a dark,

you know, cave.

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Right. So and this is so much better.

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I saw the pictures

and I think it's an improvement.

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All right.

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SpaceX's Falcon nine wasn't

the first rocket to crash into the moon.

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So Space.com reporting this.

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Robert Pearlman is the writer of this.

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And what we're talking about here

is something that's been in the news.

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It's been widely reported Falcon nine

upper stage collided with the moon

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on Wednesday last week, Wednesday.

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And it seems like

the way that this was going is

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this was the first time

this has ever happened.

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And it hasn't.

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We've been seeing this a lot of times.

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SpaceX just had a part

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that was

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unintentional in addition to this one.

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And there's been a lot of other

things like this

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where there's been some tests

that have been specifically done

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:

on purpose to crash something into

the moon to kind of see what would happen.

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So we see this going back

to the Apollo era.

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So nothing new or anything like that.

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And one of the more interesting comments,

somebody made the comment that

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if you did this, it was going to either

sink into the moon or cause it

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to shoot out a chunk

back to the earth or something.

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I don't completely

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remember what the comment was,

but none of these things happened.

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Although it is actually actually,

if you watched the really,

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really old video of something

hitting something hitting

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the moon, it gets stuck in the moon's eye.

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You guys remember that as I remember that?

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Yeah, I remember that film.

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Yeah, I do like long time ago. Yes.

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:Was it:

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It would probably have been.

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And that would have upset the moon God.

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So, you know, it's. Yeah.

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No, it doesn't happen.

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Although it is a real thing

that when they first Apollo program

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being about this and the studies for

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that was there was a concern

that you were going to sink into the sand.

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Oh yeah.

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At the time we didn't know, you know,

but back then it was you wouldn't

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want to like, get sucked into quicksand

or some equivalent of that on the moon.

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That would make for a very bad day.

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But know that obviously didn't happen.

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And as we're going forward now,

some of these things are done

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unintentionally, like the space stuff

or intentionally to see what would happen

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and why and what the reaction of things

would be in that kind of stuff.

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So, so was crashing into the moon

a bonus for them?

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Because I know that was their big thing

about the last time

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there's ships exploded.

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Well, I mean, you know, actually

getting out of orbit would

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have already been anyway. No.

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Speaking of more space stuff,

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want a chance to speak with the astronauts

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while they are in space?

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Yeah. So this is a cool thing.

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So while they're sinking into the sand,

you can talk to them, right?

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No, they're not on the moon.

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There are around in the space station.

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Just really quickly on this because

we've been covering some of the Stem stuff

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from NASA and we've been asked

where to go for this at Stem gateway gov.

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So that's the URL to get the NASA

Stem programs including this.

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And this is a program

where you can sign up with priority

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given to educational institutions

and that type of a thing.

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There's a process of what you have to do

to get involved in this,

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where you can actually get an uplink to

an astronaut while they're in space. And

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questions about this

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can go to JSC downlink at mail gov.

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But go ahead and check out Gateway Gov

for all of the details on this

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and a lot of other Stem programs

that NASA offers.

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So after a very long run,

because this is the longest

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running series,

I think The Simpsons might be ending.

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It is.

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And this is something, though,

that I've heard a couple of times

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over the past few years

when people are going,

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how much longer is

The Simpsons going to be around?

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You know,

because now we're what millennials.

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And when that started, it would have been

I don't know what generation was that?

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89. Gretchen you know this stuff.

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Yeah. Sometime in the late 80s. Yeah.

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But what generation was the late 80s?

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Know.

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Yeah. Okay. That's not

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anywhere on that topic. I'm Gen X.

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All I care about is my group. Yeah.

There you go.

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Oh, I'm sorry, that's

more of a baby boomer at a baby boomer.

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Yeah. Okay.

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As for everybody typing comments

about that, we are all right.

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Create a blog. Reporting will follow.

406

:

You wrote this and this comes from

an interview with Nancy Cat right now.

407

:

She of course is the voice of art.

408

:

And she's been doing it for a long time.

409

:

Well, has been doing it

for going on 40 years.

410

:

And she's saying that

411

:

she doesn't know this for sure,

but they have the rights to produce

412

:

through the 40th season,

which is about:

413

:

So that still would

give us a couple more years.

414

:

And they are coming out

with a second Simpsons movie,

415

:

which I did not know until I saw this

article.

416

:

So, you know, that'll be interesting

to see where that ends up going.

417

:

But the question then becomes, you know,

how far do you go with this?

418

:

Because it is something I've observed,

like the last I look,

419

:

I did a binge watch on The Simpsons,

and I've gotten towards

420

:

these more recent ones, and

421

:

they're not as

422

:

fun and as cheerful as they used to be.

423

:

Actually kind of ended watching some of it

going, wow, that was depressing.

424

:

So I'm not sure if if maybe they're tired.

425

:

You know, I kind of would be

I mean, you get to a point

426

:

where you run out of stuff to write about,

although it's exactly

427

:

you have a pretty open world, you know?

428

:

Yeah.

429

:

So just to look at the dates right now,

and this is where

430

:

this does get interesting

if you want to look at it in context.

431

:

Homer's current birth

date, in order to match up

432

:

with where the characters are

now would have to be the late 80s,

433

:

right? Oh, okay.

434

:

I think about that because if it's yours

and he was in his 30s,

435

:

that would put him at 77 or something.

436

:

Now, if you were actually doing this

in a chronological order,

437

:

which they're not, of course

it's a curtain and I know that. But,

438

:

you know, in the character Stone age.

439

:

But I notice there's a screenshot of Homer

with a selfie stick and a cell phone

440

:

and video self, and he's got a

they're changing their clothes around

441

:

sometimes to notice they've changed,

sometimes Marge's clothes,

442

:

and sometimes they change

Lisa and Bart's things,

443

:

which I thought was interesting, but

444

:

some of the storylines are just odd.

445

:

Maybe I'm just not relating

446

:

to, well, maybe changes in culture

and everything with that too.

447

:

So we'll see what happens.

448

:

Gladys West, mathematician

whose work paved the way

449

:

for GPS, dies at 95.

450

:

Yeah, scientist

who was absolutely amazing.

451

:

Bill,

you know, a little bit about about her.

452

:

Well, she was the one who came up

with mathematics that allow us to use GPS.

453

:

The thing that we use every day. And,

454

:

you know,

455

:

people use it on their phones

and logistics use it.

456

:

Ships use it.

457

:

Oh, yeah, NASA uses it.

458

:

That's a part of daily life, you know?

459

:

And really, if you get into it,

it was a very

460

:

a lot of calculations

just to figure out how to cover,

461

:

how to do a lot of different things

and how many satellites were required,

462

:

how to use those satellites

to coordinate all kinds of things now.

463

:

And it's amazing

what she came up with on this.

464

:

You know,

465

:

an interesting little sub note on that

before we close out the segment is the

466

:

speed of the passage of time is different

in orbit than it is on the ground.

467

:

And this was one of the things

that she was able to figure out. Wow.

468

:

To be able to keep these things

469

:

coordinated and what those formulas were

and that type of thing.

470

:

All right. Well,

this is user friendly. 2.0.

471

:

We'll be back after the break.

472

:

He's from the future.

473

:

He's got a really big computer

474

:

and he uses it uses it every day.

475

:

And he uses it uses it in every way.

476

:

What do you do for you?

477

:

No, I'm not that sure,

because he hears it here.

478

:

Welcome back. This is user friendly 2.0.

479

:

Check out our website at User Friendly

Show.

480

:

Send us your questions and your comments.

481

:

That is the way we program our show

and is what's

482

:

leading up to the topic of this segment.

483

:

We're going to be talking a little bit

about computer memory and where

484

:

that started, and computer processors

and where that started as well.

485

:So I don't know, guys,:

sit down and use the computer,

486

:

our core processor,

which is pretty much what's in everything.

487

:

And I know the Max and stuff

488

:

have some of their own variations

on what they're using.

489

:

But the point of it is at the end

of the day, it's pretty much 64 bit.

490

:

You have a lot of memory.

491

:

You have,

you know, some various different things.

492

:

There's multiple cores in the processors

and all that kind of stuff,

493

:

and that's pretty standard.

494

:

You can go buy a cheap laptop or something

that's a couple hundred dollars,

495

:

and you're looking at processing

power of that, and it's a commodity.

496

:

But this certainly didn't start this way.

497

:

And when you start looking back

at the history of these things, it's

498

:

kind of cool.

499

:

So early computers

like really early computers,:

500

:

and that type of thing,

you didn't have memory.

501

:

So there certainly weren't memory chips,

502

:

but you also didn't have memory

in the context of what we do now.

503

:

So if you wanted your very large,

very expensive computer,

504

:

that usually was vacuum tubes

and size of a large room or more.

505

:

Yeah.

506

:

To do something different,

you couldn't program it.

507

:

To do that, you had to physically rewire

the circuits in it

508

:

to allow for it

to change what it was doing.

509

:

So this obviously was a limitation,

to put it mildly.

510

:

Yeah.

511

:

So the idea of having some way

where the computer could remember

512

:

something, bits of information, whatever,

you know, it would need to do

513

:

was something

that they started to experiment with.

514

:

And where this started

was something called a mercury delay line.

515

:

And you sent a pulse

516

:

through a tube

that was literally filled with mercury.

517

:

When the pulses reached

518

:

the other end, electronics detected them

and sent them back through the tube again.

519

:

And this had to keep going on

520

:

so that it didn't dissipate

so it would circulate it through Mercury.

521

:

I could see that as being somewhat

difficult in modern computers.

522

:

You consider each tube was one bit.

523

:

And so this would add up

to a lot of mercury, and definitely

524

:

a lot of equipment required to do that

in any kind of a reasonable thing.

525

:

But it was the first step.

526

:

And actually having the computer

be able to remember something

527

:

and you know,

528

:

so another early technology was called

529

:

the Williams tube,

which used the cathode ray tube similar to

530

:

what's in an old television picture

tube to store information electronically.

531

:

But again, while this worked,

both of these technologies worked.

532

:

I mean, there's no question about that.

533

:

But they weren't exactly ideal for

building smaller, more reliable computers.

534

:

So that led us into the first

really kind of industrial produced

535

:

memory called magnetic core.

536

:

And I'd love to get an example

of this somewhere out there.

537

:

These things were used from 50s and 60s.

538

:

And basically what you did is you had tiny

magnetic rings called cores.

539

:

Wires were threaded through the rings

540

:

in the direction of the magnet

could represent a binary 1 or 0.

541

:

So again, it worked.

542

:

But there was a caveat to this.

543

:

They had to be manufactured by hand.

544

:

Yeah.

545

:

And for my understanding,

there is not a viable process to do this

546

:

with a machine.

547

:

So you would end up in a situation here

548

:

where workers, frequently women,

because of the precision involved,

549

:

threaded incredibly fine wires

through the microscopic magnetic cause.

550

:

Some of these were used in spacecraft

like the Apollo guidance computer.

551

:

And again, it worked.

552

:

But as they were trying to get things

smaller, which made the course smaller,

553

:

you had the workers with microscopes

trying to see what they were doing.

554

:

And of course this became problematic

and you know it.

555

:

Yeah.

556

:

I'm envisioning people

in what they call clean

557

:

rooms, probably avoiding dust,

558

:

because if you're using something

really small,

559

:

you know, getting a lot of dust into

something is going to make it.

560

:

Well, yeah.

561

:

And, you know, and it's interesting

562

:

because the idea of a clean room

didn't really exist yet.

563

:

In fact, one of the first places

where they made memory,

564

:

which I believe was

Intel, was in an old factory

565

:

in the Silicon Valley area

that did fruit processing,

566

:

and they bought this building

and started using it.

567

:

And it's like, you know,

this wasn't exactly a clean room.

568

:

Yeah, okay.

569

:

It was more the opposite of a cleaner.

570

:

What we think of today,

it was a moldy room.

571

:

Well, you know, I just, you know,

you think about the differences in stuff.

572

:

Now, one thing about core memory, though,

very early on it was nonvolatile,

573

:

so it worked like a flash drive.

574

:

You could turn the computer off

and it wouldn't lose its magnetic charge.

575

:

Okay, so he turned it back on.

576

:

The information was still there.

577

:

So, you know, the information

is all stored because of magnetics.

578

:

Yeah, because of the charge

of the magnetic cause.

579

:

Okay, now you get a magnet near that.

580

:

I think it would cause some problems.

581

:

Yeah.

582

:

Remember, we used to be told,

don't put a magnet on your computer,

583

:

you know, and keep magnets

away from your computer.

584

:

During that era,

it was different technology.

585

:

Of course, it was the same basic ideas.

586

:So in the:

was thought

587

:

about as something

that could replace magnetic cores.

588

:

But there was a lot of from

the corporate world, a resistance to this,

589

:

because it's like, well, we have this

and it works, and it might not be great,

590

:

and it's not something

we want to invest in.

591

:

Another technology that may not work.

592

:So in:

593

:

scientists, Robert Noyce and Gordon Moore.

594

:

The author of Moore's

595

:

Law later left Fairchild Semiconductor

and founded a new little company.

596

:

You might have heard of it.

597

:

It was called Intel

or Integrated Electronics.

598

:

I bet you didn't know that was an acronym.

599

:

So. But it sounds like a word,

so it works.

600

:

Yeah. There you are.

601

:

And the other thing

that's interesting about Intel is

602

:

they started out not manufacturing CPUs,

but memory.

603

:

That was the first stuff

that came out of Intel.

604

:

And one of their first products

was something called the:

605

:

Of course,

606

:

we all have to have numbers for everything

at least, you know, for a while.

607

:And it was introduced in:

608

:and the:

led on to the next piece of equipment

609

:called the:which was released in:

610

:

and it stored one byte or 100 or 100,

611

::

612

:

So not kilobytes, not megabytes,

certainly not gigabytes, but bytes.

613

:

And just to give you

614

:

an idea, a modern photograph to store

615

:

it would require tens of thousands

of those chips for one picture.

616

:

You know, you put it in

617

:

that context, but

it was the start of what is modern memory,

618

:

and it put core memory out of the computer

industry within a couple of years.

619

:

So what exactly did they use

these machines for?

620

:

Was it mostly just high end mathematics?

621

:

Actually,

you know, that's an interesting question.

622

:

It actually leads into another part of

what we're going to be talking about here

623

:

in a little bit, Gretchen.

624

:

But I'm going to answer the question

because it does fit together very well.

625

:

And that was where

microprocessors started.

626

:

So your question is,

what did they use this type of thing for?

627

:

Well, early computers would have been

628

:

like your mainframes and supercomputer,

you know, these kind of things in the day.

629

:

Again,

the Apollo computers, stuff like that.

630

:

Right. What were they doing?

631

:

What was their job?

632

:

Well, in the case of

they just doing mathematics.

633

:

Well, yeah. Okay. Primarily.

634

:

And again, answer that question

because it gives you the idea of where

635

:

things were going with this. Intel

636

:

invented what's called the

637

::

microprocessor a few years later.

638

:

And it was an accident

that this came from.

639

:

So what were they doing with it?

640

:

Well, there was a calculator company,

Asian calculator company

641

:

that hired until to make chips

for a calculator.

642

:

Now in that era, an electronic calculator

643

:

or really any device like that

did not use a microcontroller.

644

:

It used what was TTL logic.

645

:

And basically what it was

is they had chips

646

:

that were specifically designed to do

whatever that calculator was going to do.

647

:

So if later

they wanted a different version

648

:

of the calculator, they designed

specifically different chips for it.

649

:

So Intel came up with the idea, well,

what if we, instead of doing

650

:

this specific expensive

to develop, expensive to produce, design

651

:

a chip that could be told what to do.

652

:

And that's

where the first processor came from.

653

:

So yes, mathematics,

because they were used in

654

:

calculators, is the first really

consumer product that came out of this.

655

:

So this actually tells us where

656

:

the name of these devices came from.

657

:

I have a laptop computer. Yeah.

658

:

So to compute and that's,

that's the origin

659

:

of the name of these devices we use.

660

:

Right. Yeah.

661

:

Because we're doing things now

with them doing artwork and,

662

:

and sharing pictures

and writing novels or letters or whatever.

663

:

But their original purpose

was just to compute.

664

:

Yeah.

665

:

And in a sense,

it still is what it's doing,

666

:

although it can do a whole lot more,

but you're still computing binary bits.

667

:

Oh, yeah.

668

:

To this day, and,

669

:

you know, we're getting into quantum

computers now, which is different.

670

:

But for the what you see out

there uses the same technology.

671

:

It goes back to the 40s, 50s and 60s

and it's better.

672

:

And Moore's Law

and the number of transistors on a chip

673

:

will basically double every two years,

which has been held.

674

:

True is what drives

the fact that we can do so much more now.

675

:

But it's the same basic technology.

676

:

And then along the lines

of what you were talking about, Gretchen,

677

:

there is the circling back

to memory, the Dram, which is what we have

678

:

now, dynamic random access

memory is what that stands for.

679

:

Okay.

680

:

So unlike core memory, it was one that

when you turn the computer off you lost

681

:

what was in it.

682

:

So it's Ram instead of,

you know, non-viable memory dynamic Ram.

683

:

And again it has an enormous advantage.

684

:

And we're stepping up,

you know, in time as things are going on,

685

:

because you could pack more

and more onto the silicon.

686

:

So in other words,

the same number of ships were snowballing

687

:

into a thing where you had more

and more memory being available.

688

:

So kilobits

led to megabits, megabits led to gigabits.

689

:

And that's where we're at now.

690

:

So you take this and you start looking

at the idea of home computing.

691

:

Okay.

692

:

So memory was expensive

even in this format.

693

:

You go late 70s, that type of a thing,

and you start having things like home

694

:

video game consoles, the Atari VCs

:

695

:

early, early computers like the Apple

696

:

two as an example, or the Commodore Vic 20

all had very small amounts of memory

697

:

because it was so expensive

to put it in there.

698

:

You know, the

699

:

I should know this off the top of my head.

700

:The Atari:

I think, or something like that.

701

:

It might even be a little bit less.

702

:

And so what you're dealing with

703

:

is something that you do not have

a lot of room to work on.

704

:

And then that's when things

like the Commodore 64 came out and later

705

:

128 where you had 60 4K of Ram, 128 ERA.

706

:

These were just felt like

you had infinite space

707

:

to be able to do what you're doing.

708

:

An interesting little side note to it is

the amount of memory is so little that

709

:most Atari:

you can actually fit

710

:

on a QR code.

711

:

Which I thought was interesting.

712

:

But, you know,

you look at where all this came from

713

:

and where it's built out from there,

and that's where this came.

714

:

So anyway, so that's your memory.

715

:

And we started to talk about processors

because this obviously was

716

:

one was driving the other.

717

:And the:

718

:

a four bit processor. So

719

:

memory or

720

:

processor capability is expressed in bits

and it's a multiple.

721

:

So you had four bit, eight bit,

:

722

:

There is 128 bit.

723

:

Bit 64 is pretty much the standard

that's used these days.

724

:

So to give you an idea

of what we're talking about here,

725

:the Intel:

on the silicon.

726

:

Okay.

727

:

And the Apple M1 a modern thing.

728

:

Let's see how many zeros is that?

729

:

16 billion transistors. One.

730

:

Two. Three. Four.

731

:

Yeah 16 billion transistors okay.

732

:

So that's a difference.

733

:

You know I think about Moore's Law

and building out there

734

:

I'm getting a funny look build

I do my math wrong on that.

735

:

No I think you're right okay.

736

:

So anyway, you know I was hard sometimes.

737

:

Right.

738

:

But it didn't give you an idea of where

things are going with that kind of thing.

739

:

So what happens is

you can make things smaller,

740

:

the performance becomes better, the amount

of electrical consumption goes down.

741

:

You wouldn't know that

with some of the modern data centers

742

:

and some of the problems

that we're experiencing with that,

743

:

but that's because you have a lot of

silicon in these places.

744

:

Can you imagine?

745

:

I know it wouldn't

be possible mathematically,

746

:

but trying to build a modern data

center on a four bit CPU?

747

:

No. So so what does this actually play

into?

748

:

Well,

you've got a couple of different things.

749

:

The amount of memory

you can use on a given

750

:

processor is limited by how much memory

the processor can address.

751

:

So in the example of a four bit

752

::

these were used for calculators.

753

:

And that processor

could handle your digits zero through

754

:

nine operands a few instruction sets.

755

:

But that was it.

756

:

So what drove going to an eight

757

:

bit processor was the need to be able

to have letters.

758

:

So company comes out and they're building

a terminal that needs to support

759

:

upper and lower case character sets,

symbols, control characters

760

:

for moving your cursor around that kind of

a thing on a four bit processor.

761

:

That simply wasn't possible.

762

:

There just wasn't enough

horsepower for it.

763

:

So that is what drove to an eight bit

processor and has continued to drive.

764

:

The development of technology

is the need to be able to do more.

765

:

And you had some other things

in there too.

766

:

Somebody that I've worked

on, some games for retro computers

767

:

and that type of a thing,

and being a modern programmer

768

:

and then going and programing

769

:

in a assembly language

instruction sets for a 60 4K computer,

770

:

you really learn to appreciate

what early programmers went through

771

:

well because, well, didn't

they weren't the letters assigned

772

:

binary a huge binary

773

:

name each each letter had a binary,

you know, like the ones and zeros.

774

:

Ultimately,

it's expressed by a binary value.

775

:

Now, most machines have a character set

776

:

that uses a numeric value.

777

:

Ascii is the one that PCs are based on.

778

:

Yeah, pesky is

what Commodore's were based on.

779

:

But anyway, what all these things are

is a way to get from the binary

780

:

to human readable characters,

and so they had to assign

781

:

these weird number combinations

to get the readable letters.

782

:

Yeah, yeah.

783

:

And it's, you know, and all of these type

of things take up memory, take up space.

784

:

So I know one of the tricks that I play

with and a lot of programmers

785

:

do on these older things, it's

something called bank switching.

786

:

So let's say you have your Commodore

64, your Atari XY, whatever,

787

:

eight bit computer like that, the maximum

amount of memory it can address

788

:

completely, even theoretically,

is not a lot hundred and 28 K on some.

789

:

Some go a little bit more.

790

:

So what happens is what happens

if you need more memory than that?

791

:

Well in some cases

you are just out of luck

792

:

or you come up with things

like bank switching.

793

:

So unknown to the processor

in your cartridge or something,

794

:

you have logic, but it's able

to swap the memory active memory out

795

:

and put different stuff in the memory

that the processor can access

796

:

and do this in real time.

797

:

So that's how you started

to get some better looking technologies.

798

:

One system that really did

this was the old Nintendo,

799

:

the Nintendo Entertainment System,

and that ran off of a:

800

:

which is the same processor

that's in your Commodore,

801

:

Apple, Atari computers in the day.

802

:

And they got creative with the way

that they were able to do things,

803

:

and they had some instruction sets

and things like that in there

804

:

to be able

to make that function in real time.

805

:

So you could get some really impressive

output

806

:

from these machines,

even though the base technology

807

:

and what it was originally started

is probably couldn't really support that.

808

:

Memory upgrades were another thing.

809

:The Atari:

810

:

it's a retro video game machine,

but a lot of people

811

:

hold it in kind because that's what

a lot of people grew up with in that era.

812

:

By today's standard, is extremely basic.

813

:

I mean, you look at your building 4K,

your cartridges,

814

:

you could make the cartridges

bigger as the ROMs in them got bigger.

815

:

But, you know, at the end of the day,

it was very limited what you could do.

816

:

And some of these programmers

were amazing in

817

:

some of the tricks

they would use in that type of a thing.

818

:

But then I've seen on these same systems

something that looks as good

819

:

as an early Nintendo,

and one of them is a system

820

:

to where you could use a tape recorder

with your Atari:

821

:

So the cartridge slot

822

:

had a thing that plugged into it,

and it plugged into the tape recorder

823

:

and digging into it.

824

:

Well, this add on also added

something like 20 times more

825

:

and more memory

than what was in the base unit.

826

:

So of course you could do something

that looked a lot better

827

:

and you ended up using the Atari console

828

:

basically as the video and audio controls

and the joysticks and that.

829

:

But the actual

830

:

horsepower

of it mostly was moved to the cartridge

831

:

that you plugged into it,

you know, and star cast star

832

:

something was the name of that,

and it was definitely something

833

:

that, you know,

834

:

you had these tricks that you could

really make things look a lot better.

835

:

So as those things built out,

you could do more, do more.

836

:

And yet to today where I have what's by

837

:

today's standards, about four year

old Dell Alienware machine.

838

:

And I have a love hate

relationship with it.

839

:

When it works, I do like it.

840

:

I just wish that was more often than not.

841

:

But the thing of it is, is in there.

842

:

I have 128 gigs of Ram now.

843

:

I'm not going to give anybody

the address for this computer is

844

:

and I do have armed guards at the house

to protect that memory at today's prices.

845

:

But at the end of the day,

that kind of a concept

846

:

and I was looking

this up would exceeded all of the memory

847

:

that was installed in all of the computers

that were sold in the early 80s.

848

:

Total,

you know, not including your mainframes or

849

:

other computers like that,

850

:

but just your general office

or home computing environments.

851

:

This one

machine would exceed all that by a lot.

852

:

So it is interesting to look at kind of

where the comparison of these things go,

853

:

you know, well, okay,

if you want to do the comparison,

854

:

the digital watches

that we had in high school.

855

:This is the:

856

:

than they had to go to the moon in

that little wristwatch, the digital watch.

857

:

So things were rapidly changing.

858

:

And it's just

and we take it for granted today.

859

:

Can you imagine going back to the Jet

Propulsion Laboratory,

860

:

you know, in the days of the Apollo

missions and handling the engineer,

861

:

handing the engineers

there a very basic smartphone

862

:

like one of the cheap ones we don't keep,

and you buy them as a throwaway

863

:

phone now, and you look at something

like that going, what the.

864

:

Yeah.

865

:

They'd be thinking, oh my gosh,

you got the Star Trek stuff for real?

866

:

Or they think we visited the aliens

and we're getting them the technology

867

:

from them or something, you know,

because it flat screens,

868

:

which the idea of that has existed

since the 80s,

869

:

but they weren't able to manufacture them

at any kind of scale in the 70s.

870

:

He didn't have that yet.

It would have been CRT.

871

:

So you have this flat device

which is in full color.

872

:

So even with CRT is going into the late

80s, you had 16 colors, 64 colors, maybe,

873

:

you know, it's and you're looking at 16

million colors on a handheld device

874

:

that's able to compute all of the world's

information in your hand.

875

:

Yeah, that would have made a difference.

876

:

It would have been shocker.

877

:

So, you know, it really would have.

878

:

Yeah. And it's interesting.

879

:

And one of the other things I learned

880

:

about doing some research for this

that I didn't know is the whole idea

881

:

of a math coprocessor

or a floating point unit.

882

:

So in early, you know,

let's take a look at the IBM:

883

:

Until IBM,

884

:

you remember the gateways

885

:

they used to make a big deal

about having a math coprocessor.

886

:And the gateways were an:

based system.

887

:

All of that was a piece of clones.

888

:

You know, your gateways, your Packard

Bell, your compact,

889

:

even core processors have their origin

and that type of technology

890

:

and the instruction set.

891

:

So a CPU has an instruction set where

you can tell it to do specific things.

892

:

And the instruction

sets on a lot of these,

893

:including the:

the ability to multiply or divide.

894

:

So you could add or subtract.

895

:

If you wanted to multiply or divide,

you had to write software to do it, which

896

:

of course took up space in your memory and

processor cycles and that type of thing.

897

:

So you were like 20 clock cycles to

perform one operation to multiplication.

898

:

Well, if you had

899

:

a program like Visicalc,

which is an early version of something

900

:

like Excel

updating all these cells on a spreadsheet,

901

:

that kind of a thing

would take forever to run

902

:

because you did not have hardware

based implementation.

903

:

That's what a math coprocessor

basically is.

904

:

It adds the ability

905

:

to multiply or divide on an instruction

set level at the hardware.

906

:

Now, of course, all that's built

in the modern processors today,

907

:

but the cost of doing this required extra

pins, extra silicon, all of that

908

:

kind of a thing which turned into money,

which is why they didn't do it.

909

:

But it was just weird

because one of the games I was working

910

:

on, I needed multiplication capability

911

:

for something I was doing

didn't realize this. And going to wait.

912

:

There's no instruction to multiply.

913

:

No, there's no instruction to multiply.

914

:

And that's one of the things like your T

calculators were a big deal

915

:

because they had special hardware

that could do all of this.

916

:

So a scientific calculator

trying to run that on a:

917

:

or early 80, 86 based technology,

just would

918

:

you could do it if you had enough memory,

but you would, you know,

919

:

some of the instructions for things

920

:

like Visicalc told you, okay,

when you're going to do this

921

:

calculation, go work on something else

for the next two hours.

922

:

And that was in the manual.

923

:

Yeah.

924

:

I remember when getting a T 35

925

:

I think is what what we needed

for our chemistry class.

926

:

And it was like, oh, you know,

that was like big fancy tech,

927

:

you know, so they were programable

some of them too, I know that.

928

:

Yeah.

929

:

I didn't have one of those

when I was, I was able to put formulas,

930

:

you know, into some of these things

and it would remember them.

931

:

And we had laptops and stuff at that point

and you could get a magical processor.

932

:

I just hadn't hit the lottery and was,

933

:

you know, trying to pay for college

as best as I could.

934

:

So affording something like

that was not really in the cards.

935

:

And I remember I went to a garage sale

and find this t calculator

936

:

that somebody had broken the screen on,

and this just goes to show was like $200

937

:

to repair the screen in it.

And it was worth every penny.

938

:

And I ended up with this thing

that was just so I still have it.

939

:

It just worked so well and it was amazing

and like just a real luxury.

940

:

I still have mine buried somewhere.

941

:

If I find it, we'll we'll talk about it.

942

:

Yeah, yeah, I'm one of those people.

943

:

I collect weird things and some of them

big, like arcade cabinets.

944

:

But I do love calculators

and I've got a collection,

945

:

and I don't think I have one of those,

but I definitely would love to see it.

946

:

If you find aggression,

you might find that it will have to be

947

:

taken by imminent domain

for this show or something.

948

:

Oh yeah,

949

:

it's got a red screen.

950

:

I'll live with that. I'll live with that.

951

:

That's actually something

just in our few seconds here

952

:

we've got left

that we're going to be reviewing.

953

:

A listener sent in a Virtual boy,

954

:

and after playing with this

a little bit, just, you know,

955

:

have your Excedrin Migraine on hand

956

:

and you can actually use the system

a little bit.

957

:

Oh, boy.

958

:

So we're going to be talking about some

consoles and stuff coming up here too.

959

:

And again

this is answering a lot of your questions.

960

:

Keep them coming in.

961

:

User friendly dot

show is the place to send them.

962

:

We'd love to hear from you.

963

:

And until next week this is User Friendly

2.0 keeping you safe on the cutting edge.

964

:

User Friendly 2.0.

965

:Copyright:

966

:

by User Friendly Media Group incorporated.

967

:

All rights reserved.

968

:

The content is the opinion

of the show's participants and does

969

:

not necessarily reflect this station

or platform.

970

:

Requests for material use, interviews,

disclosures,

971

:

and other correspondence may be viewed

972

:

and submitted at UserFriendly.Show