Interview with Gretchen Winkler about The Knight School Journal and the Cyberhawk Universe, and a creepy discussion of modern information gathering using everyday items.

Hosts: William Sikkens, Bill Snodgrass, and Gretchen Winkler

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to

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User Friendly 2.0 with host Bill Sikkens,

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technology architect.

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And this is User Friendly

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2.0 I am your host Bill Sikkens

and joining me Bill and Gretchen.

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And how are you doing this week dude.

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All right

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okay.

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Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it.

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I want to ask you that again, Gretchen.

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Hopefully it'll go well,

but we are going to be interviewing you

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a little later in this segment on Cyber

Hawk, which is now out.

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So, hopefully you're ready for that.

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So we'll see how that goes.

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Coming right up your second half,

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we're going to be talking

about some creepy stuff

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about all the things

that might be watching you.

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So it's going to be worth

listening to that too.

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But before we dive into any of these

signs, let's go ahead and jump into

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this week's news.

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All right, all seasons of

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canceled NBC reboot to stream on Netflix.

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Yeah, so this is referring to Night Court

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going to be streaming on

Netflix beginning next month.

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And honestly,

I don't know why NBC canceled it.

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I like the original version of Night

Court, and this one seemed pretty cool.

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What little I've seen of it.

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So yeah, yeah, this is one of the nice

things about having streaming services

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like this is because a lot of things

that wouldn't get out there

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that are decent, but for whatever reason,

usually behind the scenes get canceled

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or changed or whatever you can still get

to, which is kind of cool.

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Something about new media that I like.

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So yeah, it's going to be coming up here

on February 3rd is when it starts.

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I don't know if it's all going to drop

or if it's going

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to drop a little bit at a time, but we

will find out and let you know when we do.

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Quantum entanglement speed is measured

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for the first time,

and it's too fast to comprehend.

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So this is an interesting topic.

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And Gretchen,

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when you do the research,

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sometimes I think you're coming up

with things to try to see if

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if you can explain them,

if we can't, you know,

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so, all right, so

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quantum mechanics and all the stuff

that gets goes along with this,

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you know, stuff being a scientific term,

I think for some of these science,

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it's interesting to see because,

quantum physics, like in Star Trek

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The Next Generation, they talked about it.

It was sci fi.

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It was a theory at the time.

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And now we're able to prove things.

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So to talk about this

a little bit in the time I have,

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we need to talk about

a very small segment of time

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that is very,

very difficult to understand,

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which is one billionth of one billionth

of a second or a nanosecond.

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And what this is talking about is a mode

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where a substance,

there's different words for this,

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but just for a brief explanation,

the substance is in a certain state,

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but the state is duplicated

in two different physical locations.

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So when you change it in one place,

it changes it in the other.

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And it doesn't matter how far apart

physically these things are.

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I can think of the top of my head

and some interesting technologies

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that you can create or something

like that.

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Now, being able to measure this,

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especially in this kind of a time frame,

is something a little bit subjective.

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And one of the other things is, quantum

physicists have still not been able

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to figure out the origin point

of these two different things.

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So, again,

quantum entanglement, it's a phenomenon.

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It's something that's actually starting

to be provable now.

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I think the best way to sum

this up would be to think about

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if you had two coins and you flip one,

and the other one always does

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the exact same thing,

even if it's a distance away.

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So kind of a, you know,

10,000ft view way to look at this.

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Okay.

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I'm just kind of curious to see,

what, what you are going

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to how you're going to explain that.

All right.

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VR gaming system

with all mobility debuts.

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I thought this was really kind of. Yeah.

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And this is something straight

out of Ready Player One.

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Anybody that hasn't seen that movie,

it's worth the watch.

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You're on a platform

that spins and turns for your VR headset,

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and, it has some safety features

so that you don't fall

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off the platform,

which is probably a very good idea.

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All I can say to

this is I want one like now.

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Yeah. You did. It

looked cool. I'll put it.

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You know,

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it's modern technology

and I'll put it in between my Pac-Man

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and my Wizard of War arcade cabinet

to have a little bit of diversity.

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NASA launches

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research program

for students to explore big ideas.

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Yeah,

so NASA does these different programs,

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and it's a challenge for students

to get some prize funding for things.

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But also have a chance to be able

to interact with NASA, people from there,

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sometimes even facilities

and that different type of things.

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And what this is talking about here

is, a research program

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that has two different directions,

and it's called orbit

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Opportunities and Research business

innovation and technology.

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I would not want to have to be

the person that makes up these acronyms

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and then have to figure out something

that actually means them.

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As you can

tell, that's happening sometimes. Anyway.

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So this is something where basically

what they're challenging university

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college students to do

is develop next generation solutions

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that would benefit life on Earth

and in deep space exploration.

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It has a prize of up to $380,000

in total funding.

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Now, one person

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is not going to get divided into teams,

and there's a whole program for that.

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There's two tracks that go along with

this one called the Earth Track,

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which requires a team

to select a NASA owned patent and develop

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commercial or nonprofit applications

addressing real world problems from that.

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So this could be a lot of different

things,

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from natural disasters to health care

and so on.

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The other track,

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which is the space track, is one

where you get to look at concepts.

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You want to look at concepts

that are aligned with NASA's current

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and future missions.

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So going back to the moon,

Artemis would be a program

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that's an example of this.

Eventually Mars and so on.

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Either direction

you go, it would be something fun

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to be able to participate in.

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And we will have the link on our website

and our social media

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go dot nasa.gov and you can go there

and just search for the orbit program.

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And we'll have the direct

link out there for you.

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Lucasfilm reverses course,

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suspends future manned oversight plans.

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Tell us about the right women.

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First,

I want to say because this question comes

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in, I still don't have enough data

on Kathleen Kennedy.

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We will give you that when we do.

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We haven't been able to here

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has been somewhat tight

lipped about that at this point.

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You know, again, if when you hear it's

come out, it's a couple of days away.

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So we'll see what happens here.

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But anyway, what they're talking about

here is the Amanda verse was something

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that was kind of a focus and has been

for Star Wars The Mandalorian.

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Of course, there's a movie coming out.

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There's a number of spin offs

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that kind of go along with this

that are in the same season.

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Now, Gretchen,

you would be more able to speak to that.

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It's episode six and seven.

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I think that this mainly is between

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I don't

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know, I you

know, I don't know what it's referring to.

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Yeah. That's that's what I've been here.

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What they're trying to wedge it

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into a certain timeframe

within the Star Wars universe.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's

where they ended up going.

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You know, again,

I am not the expert on that.

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But anyway, what they're talking about now

is that they are shelving

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that idea, or at least

pausing it to continue going on.

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Mandalorian and Grogu

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are still being talked about, the movies

coming up, and I think there's another,

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season of Ahsoka

that's either out or about to come out.

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It hasn't come out okay.

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I've been waiting for it.

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That's that's this year, I think.

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Anyway, outside of that,

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they're kind of pausing things

and looking at some other stuff.

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There's a new Star Wars movie.

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I mean, later this year, you know,

in:

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So maybe they're focusing

a little bit more on that now,

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but it'll be interesting

to see where this all goes.

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And if there's changes in management,

this could also affect this directly.

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You know, as far as,

as far as all that's concerned.

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All right.

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Well, we've got something

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that's sort of different

and not different today,

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and that is that

we're going to be talking to an author.

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That's the part that's not different.

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We have had a lot of wonderful authors

on the show over the years,

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and it's amazing

to check out their experiences.

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But today we're going to be flipping

the script here a little bit,

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and we're going to be talking to Gretchen.

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So Gretchen, you normally are our co-host

and still are, but,

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today we're going to be flipping this

around a little bit

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and asking you

some questions on your book.

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How does that feel? Ooh, okay.

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Woo hoo!

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I guess that's a good enough answer.

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I already promised you

I wouldn't be Korben Dallas.

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And,

that's a character from The Fifth Element.

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Yes, yes.

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No, I know,

but but not everybody does, so.

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Yeah, that'll be great.

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That means that we'll probably be able

to actually fit this interview

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in the time slot for the show, which is,

which is, you know, a positive thing. So.

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All right, well, let's go ahead and start

kind of at the beginning of this.

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For listeners who may not know it yet,

how would you describe yourself

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as an author and what kinds of stories

are you drawn to telling?

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Well, let's see,

I like stories where the reader

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is taken on a journey by the characters

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so that you

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think you're reading along and,

and the characters take you

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on some kind of, journey,

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whether it's science fiction, fantasy,

or maybe even a mild mystery.

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I'm not a mystery writer, but sometimes

I'll put surprises in my stories.

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And,

I want you to go along with the character

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and just, you know, experience

what they're going through.

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You know, it's interesting

you say that we're going to dive into this

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a little bit more here in just a second,

but I know some of the reviews

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we're already seeing

is that your stories have depth

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as a comment that, is being made a lot.

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And I think that's a positive thing.

Obviously.

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So we'll we'll circle back to that here

in a little bit.

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But let's go ahead and talk about this.

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Now, we've talked about cyber hockey

before obviously on the show here

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and kind of discuss the process of

getting to this point as you were writing.

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But let's go ahead and talk about

the cyber hockey universe.

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So I don't think

we've ever actually focused on this.

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What kind of a world is that

and what are the readers stepping into?

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Okay, Cyber Hawk,

I would say it's contemporary,

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but it's, it's a positive contemporary

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where it's science fiction and,

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you know how Star Trek had a positive

bent to it with the tech?

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That's where.

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Yes. Yeah, yeah.

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Original Star Trek. Okay. Next.

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And so okay, so,

that was that positive idea

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of how technology can be beneficial.

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But there are undertones in my stories

that, make it

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perhaps science fiction,

a little bit of fantasy.

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There are some scary moments.

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So it's kind of hard for me to decide

where does it really fit in?

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It doesn't seem to fit in one one box,

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which actually

probably makes it more interesting.

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Now, you released a year ago,

a little over a year ago, a novel letter,

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which was basically a little tiny

short book that was just establishing

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some of the characters and there was a lot

more interest than we expected into it.

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But your first book

that you've actually put out,

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this full length is a book

called The Night School Journal.

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And this is something that,

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I know from my own standpoint,

you've been writing for a long time.

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It feels personal

and intimate when you read it.

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So I'm going to ask you two questions.

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What inspired you to tell this story,

and did it always fit in the cyber hack?

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Okay, I'll answer the easy one first.

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It was not originally meant

to be part of cyber Huck.

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Okay, let's see.

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Why did I write it?

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Well,

I belong to an organization of knights,

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and there's not a whole lot

for us to do here in the United States.

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And one of the goals

that you and my husband

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had always thought

that education was super important.

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And I wanted to describe my ideal school

or knights.

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And I thought, it's going to be boring

if I just write up

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like a business type thing.

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Nobody's going to read that.

They're not going to remember that.

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And everybody knows about Hogwarts

from the Harry Potter universe.

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So it's like people talk about it,

they remember it.

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So why don't I tell the story,

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about a school for knights?

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And,

the reason why it feels very personal

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and intimate is because what I did

is I took,

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the experiences that I observed

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from my husband's life as a child of,

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divorced parents who did not divorce

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friendly, they hated each other.

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So I took my experience

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and observations from what he went through

and put it into the story

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so that there was something interesting

going on while

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I'm describing the school,

and it just kind of went from there.

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Okay.

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Now, when

we started, you were talking about picking

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with your characters,

taking, readers on a journey.

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What emotional journey?

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What journey in general

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do you hope the readers go on

when they read the Night School Journal?

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That let's say that

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not everything is as it seems.

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Be open to learning, be open to change.

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And that maybe as you investigate

the world around you,

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you might discover

that there is something more going on

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in your life, or maybe in the lives

of the people around you.

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It's a growth story.

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And so what are you writing now?

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First of all, I'm gonna ask you,

how long were you working on that?

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Because I know this one

went a little longer than most.

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And was there a moment

while you were working on it

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that you kind of realized,

hey, this is working?

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Let's see.

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Alright.

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It started like many years ago.

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And I warned people in the book,

that it's set in a time,

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technology has changed greatly

since when I wrote that story originally,

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and it was just something off the cuff,

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and I hadn't really planned it.

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And,

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wow, now I just forgot

where my train of thought was.

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Remind me, what were you wanting to know?

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Or basically at what point,

you know, during this process.

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And I already knew

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you had started a number of years ago,

which is why I ask a question that way.

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But during that time, was there a point

where you were, you know, said, hey,

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this is actually going to work out

as a book or, you know,

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I think we're going in the right

direction.

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I oh, I really didn't know.

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And I did something that I never do.

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It was, a seat of the pants type book.

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I just started writing, and I,

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we defined that it's

somebody who doesn't plan.

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They just sit down and start writing stuff

and no outline.

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No. Okay. And that's not me.

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I at least I was smart enough

to write down

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the descriptions of the characters

I always keep, like,

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a spreadsheet

or a notebook with the characters

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and,

descriptions of them, personal attributes,

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relationships,

so that I can refer back to them.

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So this I,

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I just kept enjoying the story,

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but then I wrote myself into a corner and,

I couldn't go any further.

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So that was the reason

why it took like ten years to finish.

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So, yeah, the name of the book

is The Night School Journal.

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Is it actually written as a journal? Now?

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Yeah, yeah.

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You know,

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because that's a definitely a question

that you would look at at the title.

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It does create a, strong connection

to the character, a character sorts.

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And that type of a thing

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that this change the way

you approach the character development.

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Now, I know

you said you wrote it off the cuff,

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but you've written other things,

so how would it compare?

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Well, this one's told from mostly.

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I wanted to give it

from a child's perspective.

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You know, he's Kyle, is he?

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He's not a little kid,

and he's not yet a teenager.

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He's in that in-between stage where,

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you know, he'll see a pretty girl

and think, oh, she's really pretty.

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Why am I thinking about her?

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Let me go get my comic books.

You know, he's right.

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So I try to describe the world

from the way

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he would see things, his parents actions.

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He hated being waiting for

to hear from the school.

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And it drove him crazy.

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And it made him bored,

and he was restless.

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And I wanted you to experience

that boredom

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and restlessness it while he was waiting.

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So hopefully,

hopefully I was successful in that.

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I have to see what the

what the thought is.

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The book is available now.

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It's just been published.

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As we said

earlier, Syracuse.com is the website.

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You can also find it at Amazon

or at user dot show in our shop.

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So that's book number one.

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Let's move on

and talk about book number two,

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which is actually the first one

in the Cyber Hawk series, if you will,

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from my understanding,

called Rise of Heroes.

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And it's a different feel.

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Very different feel when you read the two,

do you see

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a compliment in the Night School Journal

within the same universe?

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And let's talk

just a little bit about that.

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I don't know.

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I just felt like they were both,

like, set in the real world

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where I do with quotes around there,

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because there is science fiction

and fantasy elements in it.

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And, they just it just seemed

why not bring these characters in?

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I had originally hoped to do,

the Night School Journal is a trilogy,

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and I lost the ability to do it,

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and I liked some of the characters

that I had started to develop.

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So I thought, why not?

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Why not bring it into the cyber

hawk universe?

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Okay.

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I mean, that sounds,

you know, amazing to me.

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And it does work, by the way,

a spoiler alert

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on that for anybody that when you read it,

you'll figure that out.

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Let's do a little bit behind the scenes.

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What does your writing process

actually look like?

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Are you a planner?

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I know you said you

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didn't do that for Night School Journal,

but for the others you do.

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Do you plan on

do you discover the story as you go?

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Some combination? How do you work that?

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Let's see,

I would have to say I'm a planner,

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but I plan loosely with basic concepts

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and if I have something that goes off

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or off of the main story or off of it,

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I will like, evaluate it thinking, okay,

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is this going to add to the story

or is it going to take away from it?

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So if I feel like it's going to build

and give more depth to the story,

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I will keep with that, you know, side

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side story or side development.

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So I'm basically a planner, though.

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Okay,

I'm going to work something out at YouTube

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before we kind of move ahead here.

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Rise's heroes,

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without giving too much away, can

you give us just a synopsis of the book?

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It's an introduction to a group of heroes

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that would be a very, very.

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And there's cool technology

that's introduced.

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Yeah. Okay.

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All right,

well, we'll leave it at that and move on.

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So you have another one

you're working on right now.

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Oh, Cyber Hawk unveiled villains

will be the second one in the series.

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Can you tell us a little bit about that?

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I know you're still in the process

of creating it.

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Yeah, but,

how does that work in everything?

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Well, you gotta you gotta know who

the bad guys are in the story.

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Agree?

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If you don't know who

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they are, you're going to have a problem

and it's going to be boring.

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So unveiled villains, obviously,

by the title, I'm unveiling the villains

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so that the reader can know who are

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the cyber hawks going to be engaging with.

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:

And that's what

that's that's the goal of this one.

403

:

The first book is heroes first.

404

:

Second book is villains.

405

:

So tell us which one was more challenging

the heroes or the villains?

406

:

And,

what was a fun component or something

407

:

that you think of

when you think of putting this together?

408

:

Okay.

409

:

One of the challenges

of developing villains

410

:

is that

you have to think about their motivations.

411

:

I'm not a super villain.

412

:

I don't walk around doing

mean things to people.

413

:

So I had to really think about

what is their motivation.

414

:

You have some classic bad guys

from Star Wars.

415

:

You have Darth Vader, fallen hero

who hates himself,

416

:

and you have, Count Dooku,

another fallen hero

417

:

who feels like he's been betrayed.

418

:

So he's always trying to convince others

419

:

that he went off on the dark path

for a good reason.

420

:

And then you have, Emperor Palpatine,

421

:

you know, Darth Plagueis,

I mean, Darth Sidious.

422

:

And that guy is just plain evil.

423

:

But they all have different perspectives.

424

:

They all have different motives of

425

:

what happened to them, why it happened.

426

:

And so when I do The Unveiled Villains,

427

:

I've had to really think about

what are these guys motives?

428

:

You know, what's making them tick?

429

:

Why do they do the things they do?

430

:

So that's

431

:

it's been fun, but it's it

it's, it's a challenge.

432

:

Like we said earlier, Cyber Hawk

heroes.com is the website,

433

:

for the series.

434

:

And everything about it

also offers a place for you to sign up

435

:

and get information on what's new,

kind of ahead of the game and all of that.

436

:

So that's where you can find Cyber Hawk.

437

:

Where would you recommend a reader start?

Should they start with the first book?

438

:

Do they start with my school journal?

439

:

Should they start with a novel letter?

What?

440

:

Just tell us a little bit about that.

441

:

You can read the Night School Journal

just by itself.

442

:

You know, I would suggest

443

:

getting the novella, the origin story.

444

:

It's kind of nice because it gives a nice

preface for, Rise of Heroes.

445

:

But you could read Rise of Heroes

by itself as well.

446

:

So, no,

447

:

I don't really think you have to read them

in any specific order.

448

:

What do you think?

449

:

Well, I think that

450

:

I would assume Rise of Heroes before

unveiled villains when it's out.

451

:

I mean, yeah, progression. Right.

452

:

You know, I agree with you.

453

:

I think that

I think that you can read this either way.

454

:

They do complement each other,

455

:

but it isn't like you have to read one

before the other in order

456

:

for the other one to make sense,

which is sometimes the case with books

457

:

that are in a series.

And this isn't like that.

458

:

So I would say with me,

459

:

I'd pick up the one, you know, that

I just kind of sung out to me the best.

460

:

And having read both of them,

that would be both.

461

:

Yeah.

462

:

You know, not that I have an unbiased

review here or something, but it's mean.

463

:

She's my friend.

464

:

I got to be nice to her, you know?

465

:

You know,

466

:

but I look at it more from a standpoint

that, you know,

467

:

large companies are helping market

and that kind of a thing

468

:

and are looking at

this is something that actually

469

:

is something that they like

and they think is going to be good.

470

:

So more than, you know, my opinion on it,

whatever that may or may not be worth,

471

:

it does seem like the general reception

so far has been very positive.

472

:

And,

you know, getting out there and jumping in

473

:

and I think this is going to be something

great I'm looking for.

474

:

I haven't read Unveiled Villains yet.

475

:

I'm looking forward to seeing that

when the time comes.

476

:

I think of that in any way or like

the rest of them have, it's going to be

477

:

it's going to be really good.

478

:

Is there anything else

you want to tell us?

479

:

Nope.

480

:

All righty.

481

:

Well, send your questions

and your comments.

482

:

User friendly dot show is the place to go.

483

:

We are going to be back after the break

talking about some creepy stuff.

484

:

We'll be right back.

485

:

I always feel like I'm in the Twilight

Zone and I always feel some,

486

:

but it's fun to be and I love new props.

487

:

Oh, I always feel so bad.

488

:

Is what you mean to me.

489

:

Is it just.

490

:

We're not cool.

491

:

Welcome back.

492

:

This is user friendly 2.0.

493

:

Check out our website user friendly

dot show for everything user friendly.

494

:

Let's see how many times I can say

user friendly and under a minute.

495

:

Best place to go though?

496

:

How about user friendly 2.0 bill.

497

:

Gretchen, is that good enough?

498

:

I don't know, user friendly 2.0 user

friendly, user friendly, user friendly.

499

:

Anyways, let's move on from that.

500

:

But user friendly natural boy

a user friendly dot show is the website

501

:

to go finish your questions,

your comments, your ideas.

502

:

We love to hear from you.

503

:

And if you don't know the name of our show

at this point, well, that's on you.

504

:

All right.

505

:

So we're actually hitting a topic here

today

506

:

that has been a lot of questions

that have come in during:

507

:

We touched upon this in some of our Q&A,

508

:

but I wanted to do a little bit

more of a deep dive.

509

:

And that is how everything is tracking us.

510

:

And where I really started getting into

this was two things.

511

:

I am do some expert witness stuff

and was working on something with that,

512

:

dealing with how phones crack

and that kind of a thing,

513

:

which was somewhat eye opening.

514

:

And one of the other things, Gretchen,

I know you and I are both considering

515

:

new cars, and I haven't been able

to find one that doesn't track you.

516

:

So from that standpoint,

we started digging into things

517

:

a little bit, and I just wanted to see

where this is really going

518

:

because a lot of the questions

that were coming in, if they're, you know,

519

:

valid in the information

that our listeners have is accurate,

520

:

which seems to be in

a lot of cases, is kind of scary.

521

:

So I thought we can dive

into some of the direct examples

522

:

of surveillance

and some of the things that are coming up.

523

:

And the first one I'm going to talk about

is something Ford's doing,

524

:

and they filed a patent for this.

525

:

Now, keep in mind,

filing a patent doesn't necessarily mean

526

:

you're going to see the technology in your

neck or truck, but you certainly could.

527

:

And the idea of what this does

kind of illustrate some of these things

528

:

where anybody wants to look it

up, it's us:

529

:

We get outside.

530

:

That is patent number

that actually takes care of this.

531

:

And what this has to do is it works

with your car's infotainment system.

532

:

So what the pen talks about is the ability

533

:

for them to have a technology

that is you're driving down the street,

534

:

let's say your stereo and your car is off,

you're describing,

535

:

and you drive past somewhere where

the company has a agreement with Ford.

536

:

It can turn on your stereo system

and play an advertisement.

537

:

So that

538

:

already is something that personally,

I would not like.

539

:

Oh, I don't like that.

540

:

That one bit.

541

:

Yeah.

542

:

You know, it just it's it's one of

those things, but it gets even creepier

543

:

because another part of this patent talks

about a thing that if you are having

544

:

is that you have a passenger in the car,

you know, more than one, and you're

545

:

talking about a given subject like, oh,

you know what?

546

:

I feel like sushi tonight.

547

:

The system is listening to you

monitoring what you're saying.

548

:

And we'll play a commercial

for a sushi place nearby, an offer

549

:

to put it on the map.

550

:

Yeah, I started to notice that going on.

551

:

Just in the house.

552

:

Yeah, yeah.

553

:

You know, but in the house,

you can turn off your marks.

554

:

Yeah, I can talk today.

555

:

Really? You're smart speaker.

556

:

That wasn't too difficult.

557

:

You know, and different things like that.

558

:

But when it's integrated

into your vehicle,

559

:

this is something that has changed

in recent years

560

:

because it used to be if you didn't

561

:

like your stereo, wanted to upgrade,

you would put in a new stereo

562

:

all these things are

563

:

now built into the system,

so there's no way to really turn it off.

564

:

And you can't take the technology out.

565

:

So if

566

:

something like this is in there,

or if it's not in there,

567

:

but the car receives over the year updates

so they can add it at a later time,

568

:

you don't have direct control over that.

569

:

And most modern vehicles in fact,

570

:

or any of the research I've done,

I think I'm

571

:

sure there may be one out there

that doesn't,

572

:

but pretty much all modern vehicles

sold in the United States have telematics.

573

:

And built into that is,

if you put a map in the navigation

574

:

system, keep track of that

to keep track of where you go.

575

:

And this type of thing

creates some real privacy concerns.

576

:

Let's say you're going to visit a relative

in the hospital, and they want to keep

577

:

their medical condition quiet.

578

:

Well, information from your car is sent

back to the manufacturer will tell you,

579

:

oh, you've gone to this hospital

this many times at this time, you know,

580

:

during the week

and on and on and on, stuff like that.

581

:

And then that information that's compiled

582

:

is being sold to data brokers.

583

:

So what ends up

happening is in a lot of cases,

584

:

the data is worth more than the vehicle.

585

:

And some manufacturers are even saying,

yeah, that's, you know, a big reason.

586

:

Part of what we're doing out here.

587

:

So what is happening with

some of these things

588

:

is your vehicle will track how you drive.

589

:

You might is an example.

590

:

You might have a perfect driving record,

591

:

and all of a sudden

you get a letter from your insurance

592

:

company, you're raising your rates well,

593

:

and you get in an accident

or get any tickets.

594

:

No, but the information

your car sent back to us

595

:

said you'd stop heart or you were driving

at times that we considered

596

:

dangerous,

like in the middle of the night.

597

:

Those kind of things. And

598

:

I don't think I like that, you know.

599

:

And that also makes me wonder,

are they focusing

600

:

now on this data

collecting instead of engineering?

601

:

A terrific vehicle?

602

:

Well, you know, it comes down to money.

603

:

And if there's no money

or even an equal amount of money

604

:

to be made off of selling the data,

605

:

that's certainly becomes an issue.

606

:

You know,

607

:

are they going to manufacture

the car properly

608

:

or are you going to develop the equipment

to do this monitoring?

609

:

And, you know, with modern cars,

I mean, you have cameras everywhere.

610

:

You have what?

611

:

We were just talking about

the audio pick up

612

:

and the voice recognition

and these type of things.

613

:

And it's very easy to do this.

614

:

And, you know,

one of the things that was said,

615

:

and I get back and probably

get some quotes and say, oh, you know,

616

:

just don't accept the agreements

when you buy your car

617

:

because you have to accept the terms

and agreements for all of this.

618

:

Okay.

619

:

I wonder how much of your car

would function if you

620

:

didn't accept any of the agreements?

621

:

Yeah,

I imagine you could start it. Maybe.

622

:

But I get on with the radio, even work.

623

:

I mean, I know it's.

624

:

And this type of thing

625

:

is something

that is really building itself out.

626

:

And we're starting

to see different things now.

627

:

Another topic that kind of goes along with

this is something

628

:

that we're seeing called automated

or automated license plate readers.

629

:

We're seeing this

in a lot of different towns.

630

:

So this technology has existed.

631

:

It's not new in the sense

of an automatic license plate reader.

632

:

So if you are in an area that has photo

radar or, you know, red light cameras,

633

:

or I'm sure police cars have the ability

to do this manner on their work,

634

:

you drive through and it read your license

plate and, would send you the ticket.

635

:

You know, that kind of a thing.

636

:

That part of it is irritating,

637

:

but it doesn't have the privacy concerns

that we're seeing in other things.

638

:

Now, we've talked about lock cameras

in the news recently, which are these

639

:

massive surveillance camera networks

that are in a lot of different cities.

640

:

One of the

641

:

other things going along with

this is there's private companies

642

:

mounting this technology, like a license

plate reader and just driving around,

643

:

picking up everybody's license plate, and

that information is being sent somewhere.

644

:

So now what happens

is, is between that and the flock cameras

645

:

and some of the other things

that are out there,

646

:

they can get a map of where you're going,

where you've been,

647

:

how long you've been in a place,

you know, all that kind of information

648

:

without

you even knowing that it's happening.

649

:

And from that kind of a standpoint,

650

:

it I again, I can see where

this really creates a privacy concern.

651

:

So you have some

you know, and it's not even the police

652

:

necessarily that were doing it.

653

:

You have a private company

654

:

driving around a parking lot,

just getting everybody's

655

:

license plate numbers

and storing them and selling them.

656

:

I mean,

you know, that kind of a thing to me is,

657

:

not something

that I would consider a good thing.

658

:

Yeah. It's not appropriate.

659

:

Oh, you know, now

660

:

police departments and other companies

that are in favor of this kind of stuff

661

:

and are trying to promote are saying,

hey, you know, for crimes committed,

662

:

we can trace the car

that committed that crime

663

:

and we can watch and go

664

:

through the intersections and probably,

you know, catch the criminal.

665

:

Better.

666

:

And there are a few stories out,

there are probably more

667

:

than a few of where

this is actually happened.

668

:

But is the trade off of everything

about your life

669

:

being monitored and recorded

and sold somewhere?

670

:

You don't have control over where

that somewhere is?

671

:

I mean, I think it would be

even a little less of an issue

672

:

if it was going to law enforcement

and they were keeping it,

673

:

you know, in some secure database

or something.

674

:

There's problems with that.

675

:

But a private company having it

676

:

that has no real restriction

on what they can do with this information,

677

:

and they're able to,

you know, track all this stuff

678

:

and do all of these different

no expectations of ethics.

679

:

Yeah. That's what you're saying.

680

:

What about things like a stalker?

681

:

Yeah. You know, stalk somebody.

682

:

I'm going to go on.

683

:

And now I can,

you know, the license plate number,

684

:

and I can buy this information

and know where that individual is.

685

:

I mean, that's downright

scary when you think about it.

686

:

So this kind of thing

687

:

is creating some regulatory concerns.

688

:

But the law tends to be far behind

technology in a lot of different cases.

689

:

The next one on

this list is one where this has really

690

:

kind of push this ahead

a little bit too through.

691

:

And it's something you may have heard of

in the news.

692

:

It's a company called Clearview AI.

693

:

Now for anybody that's not familiar

with it, a 10,000ft view definition

694

:

of this is, Clearview

AI is a company that has built

695

:

one of the largest

facial recognition systems in the world

696

:

by automatically collecting or scraping

is the technical term for that.

697

:

Billions of publicly available photos

from the internet, social media, public

698

:

websites, image databases and so on

to create a massive database of biometric

699

:

face images that can be searched

to identify people using a photo.

700

:

Okay, so

701

:

what you have is a situation here

where again, you have a private company

702

:

and you know their arguments

well for getting pictures.

703

:

They're on the internet, you know,

they're already out there.

704

:

It's it's not private.

705

:

And now you take that and combine it

with some of the other things

706

:

that we just talked about.

707

:

With facial recognition,

you can track somebody's

708

:

movement pretty much everywhere

because you take this to the next step.

709

:

Most houses have surveillance cameras now,

and most of these networks are open.

710

:

They're sharing agreements.

711

:

I know with ring

you can opt in and opt out of it.

712

:

Although there's been some question on

about how effective opting out of that

713

:

actually would be, and I'm picking on

that, that one company, they all seem

714

:

to have these same type of things where

if the information stored are offsite,

715

:

then you do lose to some

extent control of that data.

716

:

And you take this to another level.

717

:

And this is where I really don't,

you know, have a problem or I really do

718

:

have a problem with this

and don't like it.

719

:

It's what I'm trying to say

is, what about minor children?

720

:

Their images are on the internet.

721

:

You have a stalker

or somebody that wants to do harm.

722

:

Well, they can take a system like this,

get a photo from somewhere off

723

:

a Facebook page or whatever,

punch it into the system.

724

:

And now with that

and some other very basic

725

:

information,

be able to look into your location.

726

:

There was a thing

that we did a few years ago,

727

:

and that was before

a lot of this information.

728

:

It developed where they were doing this

with a phone and just testing it out.

729

:

And with about three days

worth of information,

730

:

outsiders were able to figure out where

the child's bedroom was in the house,

731

:

where their desk was in the school.

You know, that kind of a thing.

732

:

Yeah.

733

:

And again, technology is agnostic,

but it's what you do with it

734

:

that becomes extremely scary.

735

:

And I look at these type of things

and it's

736

:

you know, you're trying to think,

well yeah, there's

737

:

positive sides to all of this

where you can catch the criminals.

738

:

And you can certainly argue

739

:

if you had a lost child,

maybe you could find them easier.

740

:

And probably that's true.

741

:

But again,

it comes down to without regulation

742

:

and the fact

that it's not just police departments

743

:

and stuff that are using this,

but private companies that don't have

744

:

restrictions necessarily

on what they can do with the information.

745

:

It becomes scary.

746

:

Now, like I said earlier,

they are starting to have some regulatory

747

:

pushback, and places

like the European Union in the UK

748

:

have very strong privacy rules.

749

:

In fact,

they've concluded that Clearview is

750

:

biometric database, violated EU

privacy rules because it, process

751

:

sensitive biometric data without consent

or transparency or consent.

752

:

You're not giving consent

753

:

because you don't know

that happening necessarily, you know.

754

:

And Dutch regulators fined the company

more than €30 million for collecting

755

:

images without consent and ordered

at least eight of all Dutch residents.

756

:

So there is starting

to be some restriction.

757

:

And on the UK there's some things

like that coming up, Australia and so on.

758

:

In the United States

there have been lawsuits

759

:

stating that this violates

760

:

state privacy laws like Illinois

Biometric Information Privacy Act.

761

:

There's similar things

California, New York and other places.

762

:

And this went to a class action settlement

763

:

where they agreed to provide equity stakes

plaintiffs instead of cash payouts.

764

:

So now they haven't been stopped

from doing this.

765

:

They've been hit in the wallet,

766

:

but they're almost certainly making

more money than whatever the fine is in.

767

:

In this case.

768

:

Yeah, we're going to give an ownership

interest of our company to the plaintiffs.

769

:

Well, that doesn't solve

anything other than making the players.

770

:

Oh, I'm going to get money for it now.

771

:

So, you know, I'm

not I'm not gonna fight it anymore. Yeah.

772

:

At least that's how I would get

kind of understand that, you know,

773

:

that makes it sound like they're trying

to make the plaintiffs now hope a war.

774

:

Yeah, yeah.

775

:

Part of the act.

776

:

So you know, they know about the look

at these different things and

777

:

it's just a situation where I

778

:

think that this is going to get worse,

probably blow up at some point.

779

:

You know, figuratively hopefully.

780

:

And then, you know,

there'll be enough pushback to actually

781

:

get some kind of an outcry on this.

782

:

And, you know, from my own standpoint,

we don't,

783

:

you know, present

any legal information stuff,

784

:

but there is certainly

a legal component of this.

785

:

And since laws vary from state to state,

and you know, getting some expertise in on

786

:

that would be beneficial in seeing

what direction this type of thing,

787

:

you know, it's actually going to go

or actually is going to head.

788

:

So I don't know.

789

:

So now we're looking at

our cars are cracking us,

790

:

our phones are tracking us,

which we kind of already know that.

791

:

Although the one thing I do have to say

is in especially Apple

792

:

on their phones,

they do lock this stuff up

793

:

and they do give you the ability

to opt out.

794

:

So does Google.

795

:

But what's happening is

the law enforcement is subpoenaing

796

:

these companies to get information.

797

:

So one example of that I can now talk

about is a situation where there was

798

:

a crime committed at a post office

or federal property, right.

799

:

And the person that committed

the crime was seen talking on his phone.

800

:

So the government subpoenaed from Google

all of the records of everybody

801

:

that was in about a one mile radius,

because that's about as small

802

:

as you can get out of this post office

at that time within a certain, you know,

803

:

from this to this

and to see exactly where they were.

804

:

So they got a list,

you know, and doing a dragnet of innocent

805

:

people like that is not something

that is normally allowed.

806

:

And I can't speak to

whether that's legal or illegal.

807

:

But I certainly, in my layman's opinion,

would think that it

808

:

probably is, and it'd be interesting

to see where that went.

809

:

I believe that one's in court right now,

810

:

but you're looking at this type

of a thing.

811

:

Well, what about other things?

812

:

You know, it's getting your house.

813

:

There's lawsuit

going on in Texas right now about this

814

:

type of thing about televisions,

smart TVs, tracking what you're doing.

815

:

Yeah.

816

:

So do they have a camera that's facing you

while you're watching the television?

817

:

No, at least I don't think so.

818

:

Although I think I might go

take my television apart

819

:

after recording this today

and find out for sure, but,

820

:

but what they are doing with the smart

televisions

821

:

is they're monitoring

what you're watching.

822

:

So part of the equipment that's in the TV

823

:

is able to analyze

and know what is on the screen.

824

:

So whether that's something

you're watching

825

:

through a streaming service

like Netflix or something

826

:

or smart apps in the television,

or even if you plug in a VCR

827

:

and watch a videotape of your,

you know, wedding from 40 years

828

:

ago, it's able to understand

and figure out what all this stuff is.

829

:

And then that's sent back

830

:

to the various companies

and used to sell advertising

831

:

or sold to data brokers or whatever.

832

:

Again,

there's not a lot of control over that.

833

:

And again, opting out of it,

I have an LG television.

834

:

It's a little bit older one now,

but it is a smart TV.

835

:

And after reading about this initially,

I did go down to see what

836

:

would be involved in turning this off.

837

:

Now in that particular one on that,

an easy way to do

838

:

it was unplug it from the internet

and take it off the Wi-Fi.

839

:

And there's also a way to get in there

and switch it off,

840

:

not accept the ingredient, agreements

and that type of thing to do it.

841

:

Now, of course, in doing that, your smart

TV will no longer function as a smart TV.

842

:

Now, I'm not that worried about that

because the input I use

843

:

comes from other places,

so I wasn't really using that anyway.

844

:

You know, a fire TV.

I'm sure that's a lot safer.

845

:

You know, sarcasm sign.

846

:

I have a funny feeling

that we were again to that,

847

:

and I think I might see what information

is actually being sent out there,

848

:

but as soon as I did

that, it wouldn't update software anymore.

849

:

Obviously,

all of the smart features weren't working.

850

:

I was still able to input.

851

:

One of the things

that really bugged me about

852

:

is it also disabled my remote

screen sharing.

853

:

So a lot of times I'll use my tablet

and if I'm watching something,

854

:

send it to the screen over,

you know, a remote thing

855

:

that they have set up a smart you,

an Android.

856

:

There's an equivalent in Apple

and that was disabled for some reason,

857

:

even though that's not an online thing

as far as the television is concerned.

858

:

And even saying, well, you know,

the tablets online, well, not necessarily.

859

:

I could be watching a video

that's on the tablets, internal memory,

860

:

and nothing's on the internet.

861

:

That still won't work

because it's been disabled,

862

:

you know.

863

:

So again, I ask the

864

:

question, like we did with the cars,

I want to buy a new television.

865

:

I'm going to need to pretty soon.

866

:

I'd like a 4k, OLED.

867

:

That's not a smart TV.

868

:

Well, you can guess what

the response to that was.

869

:

If I can find one.

870

:

I don't think they exist, you know?

871

:

In fact, the only way that I was able

to figure out to do that,

872

:

which would cost a lot of money,

is to buy something like a 4K.

873

:

Sign panel, you know, like something

you'd see in a store or something of that.

874

:

You can see the tuner in it,

875

:

and you could do it that way, of course,

something like that.

876

:

So in the thousands of dollars

where the televisions 2 or 300.

877

:

But then ask yourself,

why is there a price difference?

878

:

Because when you buy the television,

that's the token thing.

879

:

They're selling your information.

880

:

That's how in a lot of cases,

they're really making their money.

881

:

So I don't know,

882

:

what are your guys's thoughts on all this?

883

:

I really don't like it.

884

:

I mean, it's just

885

:

as we said, it's invasive.

886

:

I agree, you know,

I don't know if you take this further.

887

:

It's it's just something that's

going to get worse and it's reined in.

888

:

I think.

889

:

And again, you know, the argument of, yes,

890

:

we can solve crimes and yes,

there are some benefits to that

891

:

and that type of a thing

for certain pieces of this technology,

892

:

again, versus being under surveillance

893

:

and tracked all the time, you know.

894

:

So where do you draw the line with that?

895

:

I certainly don't see any credible reason

896

:

to save anybody that your television

should be tracking what you're watching.

897

:

I mean, the only potential benefit

I can see from

898

:

that is making money

by gathering the data.

899

:

Otherwise, why would it matter?

900

:

You know.

901

:

Yeah.

902

:

The only the only reason

why I could see anything doing any, stuff

903

:

like that would be the actual streaming

service going,

904

:

oh, this person like science fiction

or this person likes documentaries

905

:

and then push, you know, offer

those shows to them.

906

:

But, but that's the streaming service,

not the television.

907

:

And see,

there's still a huge difference between

908

:

that to the streaming service that you go

on, you know, Netflix or Amazon

909

:

Prime or something and watch a video

and it goes, oh, you like this topic?

910

:

We're going to think other things

like that topic.

911

:

Okay. That's one thing.

912

:

But like you say,

that's coming from the streaming service

913

:

and that's something that's a logic thing.

914

:

We've talked about cookies

915

:

and websites following what you do to give

advertising that falls more on that.

916

:

And it's not something that's like either,

but it's a little bit different

917

:

than the television actually being able

to have the logic to figure out what it is

918

:

that's on the screen

and send it somewhere,

919

:

you know, those

those are two different things.

920

:

And the other thing of videos

is on most streaming services,

921

:

you actually can turn off the predictive

things like that.

922

:

So it doesn't save an ad token,

and then you still get advertising.

923

:

It's not the advertising,

but it is more generic.

924

:

If you turn off your third party cookies

and your web browser,

925

:

you'll find that you don't,

926

:

you know, have it where it's following you

and that type of thing.

927

:

You still have some control.

928

:

Now they in some ways make it

very difficult to find the settings.

929

:

Or for a normal person,

that's not some kind of an engineer

930

:

to even know what to do or how to do it,

or what they're looking for

931

:

that's done on purpose.

932

:

If they really wanted to make it simple,

it could simply say,

933

:

do you want your website visits tracked?

934

:

Yes or no?

935

:

You know, and then you would opt out?

936

:

I have yet to see that. But yeah.

937

:

And now.

938

:

So it is a situation where

I think this is going to continue growing.

939

:

We're seeing it on video games.

940

:

That's another big one

941

:

that the television tracks, what game

you're playing and how you're doing it,

942

:

all that kind of stuff.

943

:

The game software, because most consoles

are online now, are constantly

944

:

sending information back to, you know,

Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo or whatever.

945

:

And all of these things

end up in a situation where, again,

946

:

they're compiling massive databases.

947

:

That information is worth money,

so they're able to sell it,

948

:

which is, again,

where that type of thing is coming from.

949

:

So I don't know.

950

:

Well, for everybody listening this week,

I would love to invite you

951

:

to send in your questions.

Let us know that you're listening.

952

:

But we already do.

953

:

There's no need for that.

954

:

We'll just go with the,

the analytics and,

955

:

you, you know, that's the scary thing

is, is you're starting to see

956

:

where that kind of thing could be possible

in the very near future.

957

:

Yeah.

958

:

That's not,

you know, you take that and then you add

959

:

in some of the new technologies

with AI and computing capabilities.

960

:

And, you know, one of the reasons to for

961

:

this is going back to something

like license plate readers.

962

:

Not so long ago, it would have been

very difficult to have computers

963

:

that were capable of doing that

and had enough storage.

964

:

You know, at one time

storage was expensive

965

:

and all these different types of things,

and it's very recent

966

:

that all of that has changed

with, you know, massive data centers.

967

:

I like we just mentioned that

almost infinite, infinite storage space

968

:

and that type of a thing.

969

:

And I think that's also creating

a situation where a lot of this stuff

970

:

has really kind of, you know, grown up,

blown up in the last year

971

:

or two years, three years, and again,

getting the lore behind it.

972

:

And changing things is starting to happen.

973

:

You're seeing it out there.

974

:

But the other thing that I have to ask

is if I go by my, you know,

975

:

vehicle, my Mazda Subaru or whatever,

976

:

and I tell the system,

no, I don't want you to share data.

977

:

I want to opt out of all these things.

978

:

There's no way that I can definitively

know that that's actually turned it off.

979

:

Yeah, that's a software lock.

980

:

And you're relying on the manufacturers

honor

981

:

in a way to be able

to, to know that that's the case.

982

:

You know, I mean,

I wonder if maybe I can put a Faraday cage

983

:

around the transmitter or something

under the hood.

984

:

I wonder if that void my warranty.

985

:

I don't know, you just protecting it.

986

:

Yeah.

987

:

I'm just protecting, you know, Ian Blass.

988

:

Yeah. Yeah

989

:

I don't know I, I am somebody

990

:

that I love technology I always have

I mean you know things like have.

991

:

Net navigation in the car

and even Google Maps

992

:

and some of these type of things CarPlay,

Android Auto, all of that kind of stuff.

993

:

That's one thing.

994

:

But all of those things,

we have the ability to turn our phone off.

995

:

And, you know, you can't do that

if your car has

996

:

that the moment you hit the starter on it,

or worse than that, all the time.

997

:

And, you know,

this is where this person lives,

998

:

you know,

because we're able to look it up that way.

999

:

So next week we are going to be talking

about some common sense things

::

that you can do to help limit

that's not maybe get rid of it completely,

::

but there are a few different techniques

that you can use

::

to be able

to make this a little bit less creepy.

::

Until next week.

::

This is User Friendly 2.0 keeping you safe

on the cutting edge, User Friendly 2.0.

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